The Daily Rick

Great article! I just finished reading Sam Harris’ book, The End of Faith….and I must say, it’s one of the best books I’ve read in a long while. I highly recommend it. It just came out in paper back, so you can get it cheap now. I only wish I had read it before I got into that recent discussion with Rob on the Drawingboard about Judeo-Christian morality Vs Secular morality. My argument has surely been sharpened via the aid of Sam Harris.

I’m curious, though….Rick, your arguments in our religious discussions have mostly been directed towards religious fanaticism, while you seem to offer a fair concession to religious moderates. The article mentions it briefly, but in his book, Harris makes some really interesting points about the dangers of religious moderation due to the fact that it offers “progressive tolerance” to religious fanaticism. I think this is Harris’ most controversial viewpoint, and it certainly comes off as a bit callous. Yet, after reading the book, I have to admit that it makes a lot of sense…..especially when applied to Islam. ….Just wondering if you agreed with Harris on this point?

Luke
 

I've really tried to distance myself from the Drawing Board arguments. I have to admit...I want to see one of the hardcore Christians in any of those threads to say, "You're right....it's all bullshit!" and see it my way. But it won't happen. And I feel that the arguments that you and I offer there go in one ear and out the other (or one eye and out the other).

Recently, my viewpoint of religion has changed a bit from "the nice ones aren't hurting anybody" to "worship of any kind is pointless and potentially dangerous". The more I think about it, the more I find it difficult to concede that some of the most intelligent people I know also believe in an imaginary deity.

It's still a bit of a struggle for me. I was raised Catholic and I can say that all the brain-washing hasn't all been eradicated yet. But I'm getting there.
 

It’s probably true that most of what we say in these religious discussions is not given considerable thought by the opposite side. However, I try not to carry the unrealistic hope of ever converting Christians to atheism—rather; I just find it fascinating to learn how people can hold beliefs that so blatantly defy evidence and logic. I find Cedric to be endlessly entertaining, with his whacked out theories; “Apparent Time” (the theory that the universe was made to look billions of years old, when it’s really only 6 thousand years old), “Hydrodynamic Sorting” (the theory that Noah’s flood rearranged the fossil record in such a way that it only “appears” that creatures evolved from one another), Etc…Etc… I know I can never convince Cedric, or people like him, that I’m right and they’re wrong. I mean, we’re talking about a guy that once pointed out to me that the flaw in my argument was that I was using “logic”. He also believes that when he’s trying to preach the Word to a nonbeliever, the devil will sometimes intervene with a well place “wrong number call” to serve as a distraction. Yet, I still find it interesting to argue with him and try and figure out how even someone who has less than adequate reasoning and who is ruled by religious dogma deals with (as Sam Harris puts it) “the obvious”.

Now, not every Christian on the drawingboard is like Cedric. Devon (Scripe) is actually quite the opposite, because he’s even more logical than most secularists I know. Yet, despite his logic, Devon is still a Christian, which makes him pretty interesting to argue with. We’ve had several discussions where I feel that he actually read and understood my side of the argument perfectly. I think that I’ve even made him admit some things about his religious that he didn’t think he would. The funny thing about Devon is that if you suspend your disbelief, and pretend that God is real, his arguments make perfect logical sense. Yet, if you come back to reality, and realize that God is not real, then all of his arguments make zero logical sense. This fact disturbs me even more than Cedric does, however, because it means that a perfectly sane and logical person can be lead to hold (or at least tolerate) very unreasonable ideas because of his belief in God. (Not that Devon is dangerous….it’s just that his faith potentially is.)

So, I find it both fascinating and disturbing that intelligent people who are capable of logical understanding are still duped by faith. A recent poll in America showed that 22% of the population is certain that Jesus is coming back to end the world as we know it in the next 50 years. Another 22% believe that Jesus is “probably” coming back in the next 50 years. If these numbers are accurate, we should be very afraid. That’s nearly half of the population of America who think we probably aren’t going to be around for more than 50 years. And I bet a lot of the people in that percentile hold important offices and wield considerable power, as well. Pretty scary.

Luke
 

I officially started lobbying to get a copy of End of Faith....ironically, as a Christmas gift. My girlfriend told me that other people (meaning members of her family) asked her what else I might want for JC's birthday and I mentioned the book with the caveat that if they have any faith at all they probably won't want to buy it. :)
 

wow great article, there's some chilling statistics in there. gotta look out for the book now